lady_windermere: Spike profile (Default)
[personal profile] lady_windermere
Well just a quick poll, to vent really.

[Poll #1454018]

I don't think they are fanfic myself, I think it is banded about as an insult, when really a lot of fanfic is better that what is being produced. I will say this about Joss, at least he lets his words speak for himself, unlike some. I expect people in areas of creativity to be open minded about their own creations, and fair. Which I'm not seeing in quite a few quarters right now. Yes stand up RTD, EK and Scott Allie

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-06 07:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] menomegirl.livejournal.com
I didn't answer the second question because I think all three choices are true for what was asked.

I'd go for "These people are damn well paid for it, it should be better than fanfic." for the last question but some of season 8 *is* very good and very canon-worthy.

Also, now that I've thought about it, saying the Buffy!Verse Comics are fanfic is an insult to both the comics and fanfic.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-06 07:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/
Yes, all three could be true for the second one.

The comics are a bit like good in places, alas.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-06 07:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] love-jackianto.livejournal.com
'I don't think they are fanfic myself, I think it is banded about as an insult, when really a lot of fanfic is better that what is being produced.'
I may be biased but I do agree with that.

'Yes stand up RTD, EK and Scott Allie'
Do I even what to ask. I know what RTD ha said about his work and his 'fans', but not the other two.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-06 07:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/
Well EK had been showing a bias towards Jensen and Dean in his commentaries on the DVD's, while Scott Allie has been doing Q and A sessions for Season Eight and letting his own thoughts and feelings be known.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-07 01:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] love-jackianto.livejournal.com
Oh that. It's at times like this that I wish I didn't 'know' so much about actors/writers/what have you.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-07 08:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/
I know, sometimes it is best not to hear what they are saying.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-08 02:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] love-jackianto.livejournal.com
Yeah. RTD and his stupid little comments have really soured me on Torchwood. I might have given New!Torchwood a chance, but now I just don't care; he made it very clear that he doesn't need or want my viewership.

He made one comment where he was talking about working in America saying, 'the attitudes towards drama there are very different, and their outlook is more professional in terms of how they approach the job. I heard this brilliant quote from [acclaimed British screenwriter] Frank Cottrell Boyce recently, where he said that British writers are essentially amateur and they want to go home or go to the pub, but in America they canĀ¹t wait to go in to the office.' I'm sure all the British writers he's worked with are thrilled to hear that he thinks they don't take they're jobs seriously and they're amateurs.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-08 04:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/
I put that down to brown nosing the Americans myself, as essentually he can be a brown noser. Not an endearing quality.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-09 02:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] love-jackianto.livejournal.com
'Not an endearing quality.'
Yeah, not endearing at all.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-06 09:46 pm (UTC)
rahirah: (Default)
From: [personal profile] rahirah
I think it's usually intended as an insult to the comics, so that's what I voted for. Personally I think the comics are canon, just... really annoying canon.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-06 11:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/
I gave up on them being canon while still reading them, but from what I've read, I'm not missing anything.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-06 11:17 pm (UTC)
rahirah: (Default)
From: [personal profile] rahirah
I've never figured canon has to be good. *g*

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-06 11:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/
It wasn't so much the comic as Scott Allie being so opinionated that made me stop. Didn't want to give him any more money.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-06 11:49 pm (UTC)
rahirah: (Default)
From: [personal profile] rahirah
Oh, I haven't bought an issue in forever. It just didn't hold my interest.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-06 11:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/
Yes, I think that is why is was an easy decision to stop buying! *g*

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-07 01:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mulder200.livejournal.com
Nice poll!

I just think it's sad that these people are professional writers and THIS is what they come up?

Still, at least, this is better than the crap written by LKH!

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-07 01:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/
True, very very true!

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-07 10:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lusciousxander.livejournal.com
I'd say the only fans calling S8 'fanfic' are the ones disliking it and rejecting it as canon. I do believe it's an insult to Joss, those are his characters and this is his verse, he can do whatever he wants with them. And if he says S8 is canon, then it is canon, regardless of what other fans feel.

It's easier to dismiss the comics because they are comics. If it was a TV season, it'll be harder to dismiss, but there will always be fans who dislike change. You have those who believe BtVS ended at S3, and those who believe Buffy was never brought back because it ended in S5, all because the next season starts a new stage in Buffy's life, and if fans dislike that change, they'd dismiss it.

Granted, I've read fanfic that are better written than Joss' seasons (especially S6, S7, and S8) and I believe they're better because they appeal to me, but maybe if another fan read them, s/he'd call them crap. It's hard to satisfy everyone. What appeals to me may not appeal to another fan, and that happens in all Joss' seasons.

As far as S8 goes, I'm a satisfied fan (especially with the new issue #28, so awesome!) I admit there are mistakes and moments I'd like to erase, but then that happens in all BtVS seasons. Nothing will beat the Empty Places crap for me. That's for sure.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-07 11:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/
Yes, I think that calling it fanfic is meant to be in insult, but I find it an insult to fanfic. In that, because they don't like it, they dismiss it, and calling it fanfic is the way they do it.

Fanfic is better than that, and doesn't deserve to be dismissed in that way.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-07 04:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lusciousxander.livejournal.com
You have a point. I think fanfic is looked down on because people have the idea that fanfic is about nothing but pairing two characters this fan loves which results to bad storytelling, which is true in some cases. I've seen many who claim that fics pairing two characters that weren't paired in canon marks the fic as "bad storytelling", because characters may revert into OOCness just to jook them up together, which I think is an unfair accusation.

Also, some consider fanfic to be written by teenagers who could care less about character voices, prose and plot as long as they get X with Y in the end.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-07 08:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/
I do think that people who say things like that don't read fanfic. Then if they really feel like that, it is best to stop reading, that is if they ever did.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-07 12:25 pm (UTC)
ext_15392: (Default)
From: [identity profile] flake-sake.livejournal.com
Personally I think the range of fanfic is much wider than that of the comics. There's fanfic out there that is vastly better than the comic book and there is of course badfic.

To me S8 ranges somewhere in between. Not every piece of fanfic is better than S8 but most I read is. It think many people compare it to badfic as an insult, though.

After Allies latest bullshit answers regarding characterization and continuity (like those two where the holy water to Joss devil)I'm pretty disilusioned about anything good coming out of the books.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-07 12:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/
I think if he is just going to lay everything at Joss's door, he should keep his mouth shut, and stop doing the Q&As. I feel like staking him.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-07 08:51 pm (UTC)
next_to_normal: (Default)
From: [personal profile] next_to_normal
I don't think they are fanfic myself, I think it is banded about as an insult, when really a lot of fanfic is better that what is being produced.

Agreed. I wasn't sure how to answer the first question, since I didn't know if you meant how do I take it, or how is it meant when people say that. I think most people say it as an insult to the comics, but I think it's really insulting to both.

Comics are not fanfic, just by definition of the words "canon" and "fanfic." Joss is the creator of Buffy, and he's the one writing the comics, so therefore they are canon and can't be fanfic, whether we the fans like them or not.

It's insulting to fanfic, though, to say that because the comics suck, they're "just Joss writing fanfic." That implies that the determination of whether something is fanfic is based on the quality of the work, which is both inaccurate according to the definition and insulting to the fanfic out there that far surpasses the comics in terms of quality.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-07 09:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/
I personally think the people who dismiss the comic as fanfic have a type of snobbish ignorance of both. The comic is a published, commercial being, while fanfic is produced by people who keep the verse alive, and give it thought. I sometimes suspect that that is what is missing in the comic, the thought that fanfic writers put into the verse.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-07 09:53 pm (UTC)
next_to_normal: (Default)
From: [personal profile] next_to_normal
I personally think the people who dismiss the comic as fanfic have a type of snobbish ignorance of both.

Hmmm, I think that's true in some cases, but I have also come across fanfic authors and readers who dismiss the comics as "Joss writing fanfic," which is something I completely don't get.

I can sort of understand people who don't like fanfic using it as an insult to the comics - they see fanfic as inferior to the show/canon, therefore the comics, which are also inferior, are equivalent to fanfic. I disagree with that logic, but I can see how they got there.

But if you actually LIKE fanfic? Makes no sense to me. I guess maybe they're bitter that the inferior comics are canon and thus more legitimate than their (undoubtedly brilliant) fanfic, so they are attempting to delegitimize them by equating the comics with their own noncanon work? But insulting themselves in the process...

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-07 10:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/
It makes no sense to me either. Even if it is to get feedback, which is a factor to some extent, of writing fanfic, it is not Joss who is getting the feedback, but people like Scott Allie (I really dislike that guy), But by the fact that Joss created the verse, and is not playing in someone eles's sandbox, but his own, means that it isn't fanfic. Joss his not a fan, he is a creator. That they are doing it for money, even if we are constantally told how little money there is in comics, makes it professional, and not something done for the lovr of the verse, and the characters. Which fanfic is.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-08 05:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/
Agreed, I think calling it fanfic is an insult, but there are people who write fanfic who sweat over characterisation and voices, which they don't seem to in the comic. As well as staying true to the canon backstory, while in the comic that seems to be trown out the window if it gets in the way of telling the story.

If you are working to incorporate the canon from the series in a truer way than the comics, then calling the comics fanfic is self defeating.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-08 09:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erin-starlight.livejournal.com
Fanfic is used as an insult sure but I think it's because if you look up a random fanfic you're likely to find a bad one before you find a good one. And yes, it's also used to say it's not considered canon in some fans eyes. I have seen it commented many times that fanfic is usually written better than this with the bonus of not having to pay for it.

Whether or not the Angel related titles are "canon" doesn't matter to me. Only Humans is my favorite recent comic in the 'verse that just has Gunn with Illyria. Both are in character, the story relates directly into Lynchs' plots and it has a connection to an old plot from the tv series. If BTVS is fanfic in it's insult form with all it's crazy/sometimes random shipping, some mischaracterizations and weird explanations to wave off plot points (the Immortal) than I'd say ATS is the really good fanfiction (well not Aftermath.)

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-08 09:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/
Yes, I think that in general it is used as in insult, and to mean that they don't consider it canon. Which kind of annoys me, as a lot of fanfic deserves much better than that.

I'm not really following the AtS comics. I have them, but haven't read a few of them yet.

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