Bad Angel!

[lady_windermere]

Just for fun, when was Angel at his worse?

[Poll #1001757]

Comments

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

I'd say signing all his friends memories/souls away to Wolfram & Hart is the worst he's done. Fred may not have dies if he hadn't done that.

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Oh good point Sue, yes I sould've had that one! *Drats*

[hesadevil.livejournal.com]

I agree. Not only would Fred probably not have died, Lorne wouldn't have had to kill Lindsey (which was the one I went for as it illustrated how much Angel used others to further his own desires).

But then the plot of AtS5 would have been very different, and there might have been no Spike.

[so-sharlemaine.livejournal.com]

I agree with Sue about dragging his friends into WH. The thing with Lorne did make me kind of sad, but the other things didn't bother me at all.

Hmmm...sometimes I wonder about myself...

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Yes a total oversight not including that one! Oh I found the Lorne one the one I was most unhappy with!

[shanmara.livejournal.com]

I think Angel was at his worst when there was one thing he didn't do...

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Oh? Go on what was that? Please tell me (does it have anything to do with Spike?).

[shanmara.livejournal.com]

Sweetie, what he should have done to Spike and didn't would fill a LJ ;)

Actually, I was thinking "not draining JW for stopping the show".

Sorry, darling, that's just me being silly after these last days :)

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Oh I love you being silly, then should it not have been locking WB in a room with himself and Spike and draining them all....After they had both lost their souls of course, because the show was cancelled?

[shanmara.livejournal.com]

Oh honey, you have to write that as a ficlet or a drabble!!

[altyronsmaker.livejournal.com]

I've read the comments above about the memory wipe, and I have to say that using Lorne to kill Lindsey was *ack* worse than that. At least, with the memory wipe, some good came of it:

1. Connor got to live a relatively normal life without all the horrific memories of manipulation and pain that Holtz, Angel, and W &H put him through.

2. Wesley got to forget about betraying Angel and having his friends turn their back on him.

3. Angel is the only one who remembered everything, so he's the one that suffered because of that memory wipe.

The thing that makes Lorne killing Lindsey so bad, is that Angel corrupted another person, for no other reason than as a means to an end. Yeah, he killed Lawson, but that was to save everyone on that ship. He could have dusted Lawson after that, making what he did plain and simple murder. But he gave him a chance.

But using Lorne, because Lindsey wouldn't expect it, was just...reprehensible. And ultimately, I think it's what led Lorne to leave the crew. He'd do the favor for Angel, but he knew what it would do to his psyche, so it was the last favor from him. Also, I think Lorne knew at that point that Angel would do ANYTHING - including cross that line - to stay in the fight.

Gah! That got away from me. Sorry to meta in your LJ. *runs and hides*

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Oh come back, I enjoyed your meta, and agree so much. Even if I had put the memory wipe thing in I would still have voted for what Angel did to Lorne. Cos it totally went against everything Lorne stood for

[shapinglight]

I voted for the Lorne thing too. I do think the memory wipe thing was bad but I understand Angel's reasons for doing it - the Lorne thing is beyond me.

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Yes, doing that to Lorne, I just find it hard to forgive. Angel at his worse, wanting someone dead, but not willing to do it himself, so gets a total innocent to do it.

I don't really think the Darla and Drusilla thing was that bad. They both wanted to kill, and Darla had her own reasons for doing so. While the memory wipe, well he always said he loved his son. Before Angel agreed to the deal, the others had been tempted. Angel might not have known when he made the deal, but none of them objected!

[pfeifferpack.livejournal.com]

Let's not forget luring the "pure" Drogyn to LA to get in with the Black Thorn only to kill him to prove he was sincere in wanting to join! He was REALLY dark those last few episodes! Nearly Angelus dark if you ask me with his manipulations. That's another one....setting up his friends to either join him in a suicide mission or to walk away and let him die (something he KNEW none of them would do).

Kathleen

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Oh very good points, yes the set up at the end was dispictable, very true. And the heavy loss of his friends lives as well. Thought provocking.

[erin-starlight.livejournal.com]

This is a toughy but here it goes. I don't have much of a problem with him killing crimnials, we don't know how bad they were just Darlas' take on it. The soul was still new and Angel had no idea who he was at the time.

Turning Lawson was needed, and he was dying anyway. I think the bigger crime was letting him live afterwards. With the store check I'm never sure if he was dead or not at that point. If he was then this doesn't bother me as much.

The Darla/Dru thing was horrible. Yes the Worfram and Hart people are evil but some of them were just dates. Innocent bystanders. So it's either this or getting Lorne to kill Lindsey. Of course Lorne did agree to it. Hard to choose between the two.

[shinodabear.livejournal.com]

Lorne! *eh hem*

Yeah, let's just say, I know the the big green lovin' machine was a bit down and changed since Fred's death, but he wasn't going to become the murderer than Angel made him. On the other hand, did Angel really make him? Lorne could have walked away and not pulled the trigger. Who knows, Lindsey might have actually truly been a help. I can't, however, leep from feeling for Lorne. I don't place 100% blame on Angel, but the big lug had a large part in it all. And it was needless. Just 'cause he couldn't bring himself to kill Lindsey himself . . .

I think Angel was at his most confused/selfish in S5 with W&H. He had so mmuch stress with the mindwipe and trying to orient himself with the new position of power (that will get ya everytime!) then Spike comes in as the big grand hero, and there were just a lot of things that --- not exactly changed Angel, but made him different.

/rant. *g*

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Oh a great and well considered rant! Yes, I went for Lorne as well. I think it was because he did use the state of mind Lorne was in, after the death of Fred, in fact everyone was in. They all grieved the passing of Fred. Then I guess it has to be said that Angel did as well. None of them were totally thinking straight.

Still my own thoughts are that killing at all was so out of character for Lorne, and his own mind was so fractored at the time, that was the worse for me.

[hotspur18.livejournal.com]

You've heard my rant, love, so you know why I voted for Lorne as being the worst....

*bops Angel*

:-) xxx

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Yes, and you know I agree with you, totally! *hugs*

:-)XX

[bakatulip.livejournal.com]

I voted for allowing Dru and Darla to kill the W&H Lawyers... because even if Angel got Lorne to kill Lindsey, Lorne still had the ability to make a choice. He could've followed Lindsey and not killed him. Because Angel locked Dru and Darla in with the lawyers, it was an action he made, I think that was his worst.

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Yes, in season 2 he went dark quite quickly, but for me I think Angel went dark again slowly from when Connor was kidnapped in season 3 onwards, reaching a high point when he went all out to take out the Black Thorn. Which is were the Lorne move fits in. So for me, it is getting Lorne to kill Lindsey.

[bakatulip.livejournal.com]

*nod* I do see your point.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_sharvie_/]

My extreme dislike for Angel could fill a book. *bg* I think the thing I thought was the worst was his manipulation of his "friends". Why the hell did he need to drag all these people to their deaths just so the SP would get a little messed up? They even said it'd be a blip on their radar. I still can't understand why these people were so loyal to him when he'd manipulate his nearest as soon as it benefited him. Eeeyuk.

This would probably be classified as a personality trait rather than an event but it's what got under my skin, time and time again.

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Yes, he does get things into his head, and become determined to do things, despite the consequences. The whole final episode shows that. It is something that happens on the whole Weldon!Verse with many of the main characters, they have a tendency to be self absorbed. Not very endearing at all!