Who is a Scoobie, Who is a Member of AI

[lady_windermere]

I saw This Entry at erin_starlight's journal, and it got me thinking about who was a Scoobie to me, and who really was in the Fang Gang. So this is my personal take on it. Contains spoilers for the comics, both Buffy Season Eight and Angel: After the Fall.


For me the Scoobies are Buffy, Willow, Xander and Giles. Everyone else is viewed by how they interact with which ever member of the original four they are involved in. Angel, Oz, Cordelia, Tara, Anya and Dawn. The depth of their development was over shadowed by the main character they had a relationship with.

Most of the show was about the title character Buffy yes, but it was also about how they interacted between the four of them. They have been friends since High School or earlier, and it shows. They have this shared experience, and have gone through it together. Everyone else is on the fringes of what the main four know about each other.

They also find it a lot easier to forgive each other than anyone else.

With the Fang Gang it is different. Partly because they are older, also because the operation is run as a business. The Fang Gang is Angel Investigations.

From the original three of Angel, Doyle and Cordelia it grows. Doyle dies a heros death, and Wesley joins, then Gunn and Fred and finally Lorne. Each of them adds their own skills to the business, and the surviving members go on to Wolfram & Hart, to a position there.

The others including Connor, never really became part of Angel Investigations. Connor always had his own agenda, and for me never felt a part of the main characters as a co-worker.

With Angel it was a story about redemption, and when someone did something wrong, there were consequences. They did feel for each other, but took their time forgiving someone for their mistakes. This could of course be because they were older, and fully adult.

Spike was always the ultimate outsider, both on BtVS and AtS, even if on AtS he was finding a level of acceptance, and friendship with the main characters.

With the comics, the Scoobies seem to have become Buffy, Willow and Xander, Giles having gone off now to do his own thing, at least so it seems. I do hope he will come back at some point, with Faith, so that we can see how they have been getting on. Dawn is still kept apart from the main group, first by being a giant, and now a centaur, therefore having needs of accommodation which puts her outside the main area. Of the main Scoobies, she spends most of her time with Xander, while Buffy and Willow, the sister and supposed mother figure, go off on their adventures. So now it is down to Buffy, Willow and Xander as the Scoobies. They are older now, so of course the father figure of Giles is not as important. Andrew would never be a Scoobie to me.

With the Fang Gang, Connor has his own group, with Gwen and Nina (but Nina seems to be ready to do off with Angel. Alas! I was never sold on the Angel/Nina relationship). Spike and Illyria/Fred have another group, even if they seem to be aligning themselves up with Angel more now, while of course Vampire!Gunn has another group. While Lorne had the safe haven for good demons and people. Leaving Angel and Ghost!Wesley together. They seem to be starting to join up again from the last comic, but I quite liked that they were so far apart at the beginning.

So while at the beginning of the comics run, the Scoobies seemed to be still together in some way, with the loss of Giles, they are the ones growing apart. While with the Fang Gang, the characters were apart, and now seem to be growing together.

Anyway just my thoughts. Anyone else?

Comments

[zoesmith.livejournal.com]

I was going to be all serious and then you reminded me that Dawn was first a giant and is now a centaur and that never stops being ridiculous. I didn't find it too weird at first because I've read so many starnge tings in comics but I was watching Buffy the other day and it just hit me how stupid it is... so yeah I'm thinking about it and I can't stop giggling.

Anyway, I really really agree with everything you said.

So while at the beginning of the comics run, the Scoobies seemed to be still together in some way, with the loss of Giles, they are the ones growing apart. While with the Fang Gang, the characters were apart, and now seem to be growing together.
Mmmm I hadn't noticed that! Yes, interesting. Makes me happy for the Fang Gang and worried for the Scoobies. They're not doing so good. And that says a lot since Angel's group is actually in Hell!

xxx

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Oh yes, but then the Scoobies always were a little ridged with the group, while the Fang Gang were fluid. In that way, them reacting differently to their situations makes sense.

With The Scoobies, it is also true that they formed it when they were young, which does show.

[zoesmith.livejournal.com]

With The Scoobies, it is also true that they formed it when they were young, which does show
Yeah, maybe they're just growing up. :)

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Ummmmm! They do still seem a little young for their supposed ages, and what they have been through, but I guess everyone matures at a different rate.

[aschicca.livejournal.com]

Not commenting on the comics since I don't have a clue about them (and I don't want to... I mean giant!Dawn? Centaur!Dawn? No thanks.) but basically for what concerns the show I agree with you 100% about the Fang Gang and have just one tiny thing to say about the Scoobies.

To me Buffy was just (lol) the Slayer, Giles was her Watcher so the Scoobies actually were just Willow and Xander. No one else. The others were... addictions to the group that came and went. Willow and Xander were the Scoobies.

And yes, Spike was the outsider. Makes me sad but all in all I love him for it too.

Just my two cent ;) *hugs*

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Thank You. I will always see Buffy and Giles as part of the Scoobies myself, for me it will always be the four of them!

Poor Spike *pets him*

*hugs*

[married-n-mich.livejournal.com]

I always thought of the Scoobies as Buffy, Willow, Xander, and Giles. It was their gang. I can see the Scoobies being Willow and Xander - Buffy = Slayer - Giles - Watcher, too. That makes sense.

As for the Fang Gang - my immediate thought was Angel, Spike, Dru, and Darla, but they're they fanged four aren't they?

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

I think for me The Scoobies will always be the four of them, I think of them all when I hear the word!

Oh yes, the wonderful Fanged Four! I guess at my journal I do talk about them more than the Fang gang

[erin-starlight.livejournal.com]

I do view Spike as more of a Fang Gang member than a Scooby. I think he was heading towards total acceptance at the end of season 5. But because of how the group was lost after the deaths of Cordy and Fred (because honestly having both of them die must have made it harder) none of them really connected then.

In the comics I think Spikes' building those connections. It is hard for me not to see him being offically accepted when Angel brings him to the hotel, because for him to take Spike to the place he considers his home is pretty big to me. The others (Nina, Gwen, Groo) have a ways to go but in the comics I see Connor and especially Spike (on the way to) making the cut.

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

I agree, Spike is working his way towards being a member now, and of course Angel would always hold the door open for Connor if he wanted to be there!

[erin-starlight.livejournal.com]

They family that slays together stays together. ;)

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Oh yes! :-)

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't count Giles as part of the Scooby Gang from Season Six, not Season 8.

On the other hand, I do think the membership fluctuated. People like Tara amd Oz and Cordelia were Scoobies, but not for the complete duration of their time on the show - it took time for them to be accepted.

You could probably use a modified version of the Bechdel-Wallace Test, actually. Does the character have conversations with the other Scoobies - not their Significant Other - about a subject which has nothing to do with their SO? If yes, then they're a Scooby. For example, Oz didn't only hang around with Willow; he had several long conversations with Xander, he went on patrol with Buffy at least once (in S4, when she slayed the shifty-looking bench). Tara wasn't a Scooby at first, but by S6 when Buffy was confiding in her and she was teasing Spike, she was. And so on.

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

I was thinking when they split up for the member of the core group, do the rest of the Scoobies have anything to do with them. In each case it is no. Their postion in the core group is if they have anything to do with the core group. Tara and Oz were the same. With Cordelia.....I think her role was mostly in AtS after she moved to become a main character there, she was mostly seen in her changing relationship to Xander. Either Good aor Bad. They may have interacted with other characters, but it was still the Scoobie they had the relationship with that influenced the other characters.

With Giles, as soon as he showed up, with three waifs in tow, everyone dropped everything to listen to him. Not sure they would do that now!

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

But if Oz shows up in S8, I'm pretty sure they'd drop everything too... In fact, when he did turn up in 'New Moon Rising' it was Xander who criticised him for not staying in touch.

And after Tara and Willow split up, Tara essentially became Buffy's best friend and confidante. She also spent a lot of time with Dawn - taking her out for movies and milkshakes, for example. She certainly wasn't out of the picture.

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Still see the essentual Scoobies as the core group, every one else and everything else revolves round them....Heee Hee we could go on all night!

[faith1912.livejournal.com]

I just read the first half, cause I haven't read any of the comics til now, but I totally agree with the Scoobies as B,W,X and G and your Fang Gang-Constellation.

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Thank you! ::)

[a2zmom.livejournal.com]

I agree with you completely.

Very well thought out!

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Thank You so much! :-)