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Blinkered!
Sep. 16th, 2009 05:41 pmI noticed it in the Buffyfandom the tendancy to have Angel do no wrong, while Spike could do no right. The total hero worshipping of one character, while constantly pointing out the flaws in the other. The whole point of character development in programmes is that they do develop. Spike fans can see his flaws, and also acknowledge them. We know where he started off, and what he became. It was what made him one of the most interesting characters in the show, and was what made Joss such a great storyteller.
Now in SPN we have the same thing with Dean can to no wrong, Sam can do no right. While the character development of both Sam and Dean is not as well written as it was for Angel and Spike, especially Spike (Angel could be very boring at times, he was quite static), the fans reaction is the same.
One character who is constantally good is not good storytelling. While Joss is better than Eric in that field, there has to be some movement in character. Yes EK may concentrate on Dean more, and show us his developements in more detail (another example of bad storytelling, after all he only had two main characters, so could've spent more time showing Sam's motivations last season, a major flaw of the season in my book).
If one character can do no wrong then they are boring, which I don't think either Angel or Dean are, it is just the depth of the character is being ignored. Spike, for example, moved from being almost a pantomime villian in Season Two, to a fully developed souled vampire in Season Seven. One we understood. While Angel was always far more interesting when we got glimpses of Angelus. To see where he started in his full evil character, to his search for redemption with his soul is what makes him interesting.
In dismissing the character to this one dimensional always right, always wrong way takes away any depth, or humanity (yes I know two of them are vampires, but they have souls). Humans are flawed, and so should good fictional characters be as well.
The depth of character development shown in BtVS and AtS, of each and every character in the show, is what makes Joss such a great storyteller, and his keeps his fandom alive. We just know we can put these character in situations and explore how they would react. I'm not sure that EK has given us enough information on either Dean or Sam to be fully inside their heads they way we can with Buffy!Verse characters.
Now in SPN we have the same thing with Dean can to no wrong, Sam can do no right. While the character development of both Sam and Dean is not as well written as it was for Angel and Spike, especially Spike (Angel could be very boring at times, he was quite static), the fans reaction is the same.
One character who is constantally good is not good storytelling. While Joss is better than Eric in that field, there has to be some movement in character. Yes EK may concentrate on Dean more, and show us his developements in more detail (another example of bad storytelling, after all he only had two main characters, so could've spent more time showing Sam's motivations last season, a major flaw of the season in my book).
If one character can do no wrong then they are boring, which I don't think either Angel or Dean are, it is just the depth of the character is being ignored. Spike, for example, moved from being almost a pantomime villian in Season Two, to a fully developed souled vampire in Season Seven. One we understood. While Angel was always far more interesting when we got glimpses of Angelus. To see where he started in his full evil character, to his search for redemption with his soul is what makes him interesting.
In dismissing the character to this one dimensional always right, always wrong way takes away any depth, or humanity (yes I know two of them are vampires, but they have souls). Humans are flawed, and so should good fictional characters be as well.
The depth of character development shown in BtVS and AtS, of each and every character in the show, is what makes Joss such a great storyteller, and his keeps his fandom alive. We just know we can put these character in situations and explore how they would react. I'm not sure that EK has given us enough information on either Dean or Sam to be fully inside their heads they way we can with Buffy!Verse characters.
No Hate Day - October 1st, 2009
Sep. 16th, 2009 05:06 pmAs seen at ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
jaylan121's Journal.
We won't spread anything hateful or hurtful towards any person. We'll promote love, friendship and harmony. So hope you guys join us in this campaign and spread love with us. If you like the idea, promote it in your journal, help us with icons, banners, etc. Let's spread the word and maybe we can even write fanfiction or poetry at that day with nothing but love or something encouraging people to abandon hate. So what do you think guys, who's in?
I don't really see hate posts on my journal, but I said I would join in.
jaylan121's Journal.We won't spread anything hateful or hurtful towards any person. We'll promote love, friendship and harmony. So hope you guys join us in this campaign and spread love with us. If you like the idea, promote it in your journal, help us with icons, banners, etc. Let's spread the word and maybe we can even write fanfiction or poetry at that day with nothing but love or something encouraging people to abandon hate. So what do you think guys, who's in?
I don't really see hate posts on my journal, but I said I would join in.
Castiel/Buffy!Verse Pairing
Sep. 14th, 2009 10:36 pmNow Castiel is complaiming that he always get left out of crossovers, and is only ever partnered with Dean. He wants equal time!
[Poll #1457594]
[Poll #1457594]
Sam/Buffy!Verse Pairing
Sep. 14th, 2009 08:10 pmI've seen a few Buffy/Dean pairings and even a few Spike/Dean ones, but who should Sam be paired with?
[Poll #1457508]
[Poll #1457508]
Dreaming Is Free
Sep. 12th, 2009 02:00 pmI had a fantastic dream. I was working at the Danish Food Center (I used to work there, as the superviser in the Food store), as a waitress while dong a Phd at university. Anyway Christian Kane was also working there, and we made out. He was a fantastic kisser, and had a firm body when he was cuddling me. We did have all our clothes on though, but it was HOT.
...............
Watching![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
audio_by_juice and listening to her reading chash's fic. Really good to unwind with before going to bed.
...............
Watching
audio_by_juice and listening to her reading chash's fic. Really good to unwind with before going to bed.
Bring back Ash
Sep. 11th, 2009 09:09 pmBring back Ash aka Dr Badass! Online petition - Bring back Dr. Badass (aka Ash)
A Couple of Vids for your Pleasure
Sep. 11th, 2009 01:38 pmOk, a couple of vids to keep you going!
Christian Kane voice, Eliot action moves!
After yesterday, seen all over my flist, what the heck was the #luciferiscoming on Twitter all about!
Christian Kane voice, Eliot action moves!
After yesterday, seen all over my flist, what the heck was the #luciferiscoming on Twitter all about!
Supernatural 5:01
Sep. 11th, 2009 12:41 pmWatched it, What a season Primiere. Kripke you win
( Supernatural 5:01 )
Rollercoaster Ride of Epic Goodness!
( Supernatural 5:01 )
Rollercoaster Ride of Epic Goodness!
So, say a demon or angel has sex with a human, without telling the human what they are. If you take possession as a type of sex...demons without permission, therefore already rape, or angels with permission (in as far as they understand it, so pretty much not with total comprehension of the implications of being taken over). Would they
[Poll #1455846]
Just a post from my last one!
[Poll #1455846]
Just a post from my last one!
(no subject)
Sep. 10th, 2009 07:54 pmWas really enjoying being on twitter and involved in the #luciferiscoming, then twitter banned it from Trending Topics. Do people not have a sense of humour. Ok, so maybe the God Squad did take it a little seriously, but it was tweeted that it was just a TV show *sigh*. Reminds me of "The Name of the Rose", where people just don't have any fun, and think it is an insult to God.
Saw that Castiel taking over Jimmy's body was done with consent. Thing that gets me is, when Castiel takes over his daughters body, who gave consent for that. If you take possesion on the same level as sex, then the girl was far to young to consent.
Ok, going to have something to eat, hungry.
I get to watch lucifer coming tomorrow, I hope he is awsome. I have a thought of him greeting both Sam and Dean as long lost sons. One broke the first seal, the other broke the last.
Saw that Castiel taking over Jimmy's body was done with consent. Thing that gets me is, when Castiel takes over his daughters body, who gave consent for that. If you take possesion on the same level as sex, then the girl was far to young to consent.
Ok, going to have something to eat, hungry.
I get to watch lucifer coming tomorrow, I hope he is awsome. I have a thought of him greeting both Sam and Dean as long lost sons. One broke the first seal, the other broke the last.
(no subject)
Sep. 9th, 2009 07:01 pmMy internet connection is a bit iffy. I had the engineer out, and the signal is being drowned out with water. I didn't even think it was raining that much. I'm online just now, but not sure for how long, I do live in the wettest part of Scotland, so not good news. It took me over 15 minutes to report it this morning.
Anyway, a bit of a rundown of where I am with fandom.
Buffy!Verse:- Near enough left. The fic being produced doesn't interest me, and the comics have left me flat. Think I'm more a JM fan now than a Buffy!Verse fan, but I am watching AtS Season Two with Ronnie. Also thinking of leaving the communities, they are supposed to be Spike communities, but it seems to be every character except Spike that fic and manips are being produced for. The recs at Darker Spike have far too much Angel in them, not interested unless he is with Spike.
Supernatural:- Still a fan, still love Sam and Jared, reading Jared/Jensen fic. Avoiding Spoilers, looking forward to Friday when I can see the premire of Season Five.
Leverage:- Sad that Season Two is coming to an end, but delighted they have another Season. Still reading Alec/Eliot fic.
Torchwood:- Pretty much left now, RTD's comments have totally left me cold, to be honest with his attitude I hope they don't bring back Captain John Hart, because I don't trust him not to ruin the character, or kill him off. Anyway they went on about JM being expensive, so I doubt it.
Doctor Who:- Well I don't really read the fic, and am not that active in the fandom.
Merlin:- Watch it when I can, but don't really make that much of an effort, will read something if someone on my flist writes it, but really not in the fandom.....Nice bit of bubblegum, but not true to the Auther Ledgend.
Anyway having read that, if our interests are not the same any more, please feel free to defriend, I will not mind. I know a few of you have fandoms you are interested in that I don't, but I suspect that this journal will become quite Supernatural centric for a while now, at least while the Season is on the go. I do kind of hope it is the last Season as EK said it would be, I would like it to go out with a very large BANG, and tell a complete story, to be dragged on for more seasons just for the hell of it, getting worse and worse every season.
Anyway, a bit of a rundown of where I am with fandom.
Buffy!Verse:- Near enough left. The fic being produced doesn't interest me, and the comics have left me flat. Think I'm more a JM fan now than a Buffy!Verse fan, but I am watching AtS Season Two with Ronnie. Also thinking of leaving the communities, they are supposed to be Spike communities, but it seems to be every character except Spike that fic and manips are being produced for. The recs at Darker Spike have far too much Angel in them, not interested unless he is with Spike.
Supernatural:- Still a fan, still love Sam and Jared, reading Jared/Jensen fic. Avoiding Spoilers, looking forward to Friday when I can see the premire of Season Five.
Leverage:- Sad that Season Two is coming to an end, but delighted they have another Season. Still reading Alec/Eliot fic.
Torchwood:- Pretty much left now, RTD's comments have totally left me cold, to be honest with his attitude I hope they don't bring back Captain John Hart, because I don't trust him not to ruin the character, or kill him off. Anyway they went on about JM being expensive, so I doubt it.
Doctor Who:- Well I don't really read the fic, and am not that active in the fandom.
Merlin:- Watch it when I can, but don't really make that much of an effort, will read something if someone on my flist writes it, but really not in the fandom.....Nice bit of bubblegum, but not true to the Auther Ledgend.
Anyway having read that, if our interests are not the same any more, please feel free to defriend, I will not mind. I know a few of you have fandoms you are interested in that I don't, but I suspect that this journal will become quite Supernatural centric for a while now, at least while the Season is on the go. I do kind of hope it is the last Season as EK said it would be, I would like it to go out with a very large BANG, and tell a complete story, to be dragged on for more seasons just for the hell of it, getting worse and worse every season.
Results of comic Poll
Sep. 8th, 2009 05:47 pmI have closed the poll on the Season Eight comic and fanfic. There were 46 participants, so you can make of the results what you will, but basically:-
For "Saying the Buffy!Verse comics are fanfic is
An insult to the comics 6 (13%)
An insult to fanfic 25(54.3%)
A way of saying it is not canon 15 (32.6%)
This one had a clear majority, and of the people who took the poll, most see it as an insult to fanfic, rather than, as I suspect in saying it, the other way around to what they mean.
For "People who say the comics are fanfic"
Don't like the comics and reject them as a continuation of the verse 25 (56.9)
Like the comics, but don't accept them as a continuation of the verse 9 (30.5%)
Don't like fanfic 10 (22.7%)
Which would seem to back up the thought I had that it is meant to be an insult. As fanfic can be good and bad, it might depend on what fanfic you have read, if any. I suspect it is an ill founded accussation just to express dissatisfaction with the comics, but shows the person making it doen't know fanfic that well. Or has been very unlucky in the fanfic that they have read.
And finallly "Ah and Now"
The comic is too good to be called fanfic 5 (11.1%)
Fanfic is too good to be brought down by the comic 1 (2.2%)
These people are damn well paid for it, it should be better than fanfic 19 (42.2%)
It is not fanfic, fanfic writers know the verse better than these writers seem to 20 (44.4$)
It seemed quite equal between "These people are damn well paid for it, it should be better than fanfic" and "It is not fanfic, fanfic writers know the verse better than these writers seem to".
I'm sick of hearing the arguement that comic book writers do not get paid that much. They still get paid for it, and expect us to shell out money on the product. If the lack of money is a reason that the comic is not good, then why should we pay for them. They use the fact that they can have more fun than they could on TV with casts of thousands, special effects and letting loose their imaginations in a way they couldn't on TV with the budgets they are given. Now the only limits are to the imagination and skill of the artist, which doesn't always work, especially if the writer or whoever gets carried way and takes the OTT route. Sometimes limits lead to better stories, if the stories get left behind for the special effects.
There are pitfalls in writing comic books, especially from a programme that started on TV, but Joss is very well versed in this field as well as screenwriting, so should've been aware of them. I also expect that quite a few of the writers are not as well versed at we, the fans, are. As fans we can be obsessive, while for them it is just another job, while, even when the programmes where on TV, Joss was never obsessed himself with continuity, it was always more about the story he was telling, rather than how well it fit in with the previous parts of the verse, which leads to lots of meta to make sense of it. So that the comic is not flowing with continuity is not a surprise. It was mearly accepted more in the TV programme than in the comic.
The comic has had problems even before being published with people not accepting them, so it is not surprising that there is quite a lot of discontent. What I object to is it being called fanfic. Fanfic is stories made by fans for fans, with no money exchanging hands. The comics are made by professionals for fans for profit. There is a big difference, and if the people in the comic book are surprised at the reaction to the comic, then it would seem they have not identified their market. Staunch fans.
For "Saying the Buffy!Verse comics are fanfic is
An insult to the comics 6 (13%)
An insult to fanfic 25(54.3%)
A way of saying it is not canon 15 (32.6%)
This one had a clear majority, and of the people who took the poll, most see it as an insult to fanfic, rather than, as I suspect in saying it, the other way around to what they mean.
For "People who say the comics are fanfic"
Don't like the comics and reject them as a continuation of the verse 25 (56.9)
Like the comics, but don't accept them as a continuation of the verse 9 (30.5%)
Don't like fanfic 10 (22.7%)
Which would seem to back up the thought I had that it is meant to be an insult. As fanfic can be good and bad, it might depend on what fanfic you have read, if any. I suspect it is an ill founded accussation just to express dissatisfaction with the comics, but shows the person making it doen't know fanfic that well. Or has been very unlucky in the fanfic that they have read.
And finallly "Ah and Now"
The comic is too good to be called fanfic 5 (11.1%)
Fanfic is too good to be brought down by the comic 1 (2.2%)
These people are damn well paid for it, it should be better than fanfic 19 (42.2%)
It is not fanfic, fanfic writers know the verse better than these writers seem to 20 (44.4$)
It seemed quite equal between "These people are damn well paid for it, it should be better than fanfic" and "It is not fanfic, fanfic writers know the verse better than these writers seem to".
I'm sick of hearing the arguement that comic book writers do not get paid that much. They still get paid for it, and expect us to shell out money on the product. If the lack of money is a reason that the comic is not good, then why should we pay for them. They use the fact that they can have more fun than they could on TV with casts of thousands, special effects and letting loose their imaginations in a way they couldn't on TV with the budgets they are given. Now the only limits are to the imagination and skill of the artist, which doesn't always work, especially if the writer or whoever gets carried way and takes the OTT route. Sometimes limits lead to better stories, if the stories get left behind for the special effects.
There are pitfalls in writing comic books, especially from a programme that started on TV, but Joss is very well versed in this field as well as screenwriting, so should've been aware of them. I also expect that quite a few of the writers are not as well versed at we, the fans, are. As fans we can be obsessive, while for them it is just another job, while, even when the programmes where on TV, Joss was never obsessed himself with continuity, it was always more about the story he was telling, rather than how well it fit in with the previous parts of the verse, which leads to lots of meta to make sense of it. So that the comic is not flowing with continuity is not a surprise. It was mearly accepted more in the TV programme than in the comic.
The comic has had problems even before being published with people not accepting them, so it is not surprising that there is quite a lot of discontent. What I object to is it being called fanfic. Fanfic is stories made by fans for fans, with no money exchanging hands. The comics are made by professionals for fans for profit. There is a big difference, and if the people in the comic book are surprised at the reaction to the comic, then it would seem they have not identified their market. Staunch fans.
(no subject)
Sep. 7th, 2009 09:54 pmFell asleep after Tea, and had a dream where hils admitted to being Misha Collins on Twitter, causing an outcry from his minions. Where is my head, in the computer it seems!
hils admitted to being Misha Collins on Twitter, causing an outcry from his minions. Where is my head, in the computer it seems!Happy Birthday!
Sep. 7th, 2009 12:54 pmIt is the wonderful menomegirl's birthday. I wish you a fantastic year. I hope it is filled with love, family, friends and happiness!
Hugs Glitter Graphics
menomegirl's birthday. I wish you a fantastic year. I hope it is filled with love, family, friends and happiness!Hugs Glitter Graphics
Sam's Journal
Sep. 7th, 2009 01:48 amEver wondered about Sam's time at Stanford? Well there is a journal you should watch/follow which explores this time in Sam's life.
thesamjournal
Watch, join, track whatever, but lets enjoy young innocent Sam as he progresses through his Stanford years. It is up to day one now, and written in a blog style.
P.S. anyone noticed there is a push to make Supernatural a treanding topic on Twitter on Thursday? Something like #Supernatural?
So you could do Watch #Supernatural tonight.
thesamjournalWatch, join, track whatever, but lets enjoy young innocent Sam as he progresses through his Stanford years. It is up to day one now, and written in a blog style.
P.S. anyone noticed there is a push to make Supernatural a treanding topic on Twitter on Thursday? Something like #Supernatural?
So you could do Watch #Supernatural tonight.
Still on the Subject of the Comics
Sep. 6th, 2009 07:43 pmWell just a quick poll, to vent really.
[Poll #1454018]
I don't think they are fanfic myself, I think it is banded about as an insult, when really a lot of fanfic is better that what is being produced. I will say this about Joss, at least he lets his words speak for himself, unlike some. I expect people in areas of creativity to be open minded about their own creations, and fair. Which I'm not seeing in quite a few quarters right now. Yes stand up RTD, EK and Scott Allie
[Poll #1454018]
I don't think they are fanfic myself, I think it is banded about as an insult, when really a lot of fanfic is better that what is being produced. I will say this about Joss, at least he lets his words speak for himself, unlike some. I expect people in areas of creativity to be open minded about their own creations, and fair. Which I'm not seeing in quite a few quarters right now. Yes stand up RTD, EK and Scott Allie
Oh Buffy!Verse
Sep. 5th, 2009 07:34 pmWhen I first heard that the Buffy!Verse was continuing in comic book form I was excited. Now I'm sadly disappointed, and have near enough left the fandom. I stopped buying the Season Eight comics quite a while back, mainly because I didn't want to give Scott Allie and Dark Horse another penny. I kept going with Angel: After the Fall more to support IDW than because I was enjoying the comic.
I've now read this atsueworld2003's journal, and am delighed that I stopped buying the season eight comic. In fact I will never buy another Dark Horse comic in the Jossverse while Scott Allie is in charge of the titles. No matter who the writer is. I really dislike the man's attitude, and the way he expresses his opinions.
So seems that filling in the blanks is up to the fanfic writers. Well, with how things are going in the comics that might be for the best. Excellent fanfic writers will do a far better job than the comics have.
I've now read this at
sueworld2003's journal, and am delighed that I stopped buying the season eight comic. In fact I will never buy another Dark Horse comic in the Jossverse while Scott Allie is in charge of the titles. No matter who the writer is. I really dislike the man's attitude, and the way he expresses his opinions.So seems that filling in the blanks is up to the fanfic writers. Well, with how things are going in the comics that might be for the best. Excellent fanfic writers will do a far better job than the comics have.
