*Ponders*

[lady_windermere]

Just thinking about the two Metas I'm going to write. Yes these are the things that keep me awake at night. Well and also that David was so boring while he was visiting I fell asleep for three hours after he left, I mean, he wanted me to decide for him whither he should go to Balloch or Glasgow after he left for a cup of coffee. By that time I couldn't care, as he had talked about it for a solid 10 minutes before that. Couldn't keep my eyes open.

.............
Joss Meta

I see Joss as very much a detached people watcher, who is analysing what is going on around him. An observer, from a very young age, who now uses that information he has built up to use in his character development in his works.

Anyone else agree/disagree or have there own observations about what makes Joss such an expert on Character Development?

..........

Sam Meta.

From the Pilot when we meet Sam, Sam is mourning. First it is Jess, then John then Dean. His emotions are very much effected by these tragic events, and his motivations and ambitions effected by them

While a character who is in mourning isn't cool, it is intricale to understand what is happening with Sam's mind, and why it was easy for Ruby, and, indeed both Azazeal and Lilth to manipulate him. He was under great stress, with feelings of guilt and loss.

Is this too depressing to write about? Would anyone want to read that?

I really don't think I could do the Meta without using it to explain a lot of what is happening with Sam, and where he is now.

Comments

[shadowc44.livejournal.com]

I want to read that Sam meta! I hadn't quite thought about it like that, but from very early on in the series, yes, Sam is mourning for someone. It might also be interesting to do a quick compare/contrast of how Sam and Dean mourn for John.

I don't know if it might be related or not, but I was just thinking about how Sam's thoughts about their childhood are mostly negative, while Dean's are more positive. How does that affect the way they look at loss?

Any chance to delve into Sam's mind is a great opportunity!

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Thank You, yes still working on it!

I think it is a case that Dean idolised his Dad, while I think, Sam, seeing himself as a falure to John, had a Mary he idolised and tried to live up to. Of course he never knew Mary, so it was his own interpratation of a perfect mother he was living up to.

[shadowc44.livejournal.com]

I've always found it interesting that Dean, who has some memories of his mother, has tried so hard to be like John, and wants to be perceived as 110% masculine, while Sam has always seemed to be more comfortable with his feminine side. I interpret that as Sam being more comfortable with his sexuality than Dean is, unless it's that Dean overreacts because he wants to be a role-model of masculinity to Sam. (Does that make sense to someone who's not me?)

I tend to attribute a lot of the ways Sam may have changed during the Stanford era to Jess's influence. That's the only opportunity he's ever had, that we know of, to spend a lot of time around a nurturing female. I think she helped him be more comfortable with himself, rather than trying to be more like Dean or John.

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Then with Dean, in the pilot, even as a 4 year old, with his mother and brother there, flew into his fathers arms as soon as he arrived. I see Dean as being the daddy's boy. Maybe, without Mary there, and spending so much time together, Sam was more a Dean boy, who, despite only being 4 years older than him, was the one who looked after him the most.

I like fiction looking at Sam and Jessica's relationship in Stanford myself. I think it is an interesting period to explore, there is so much we have to assume, that is is good to see how other people see what happened then.

[shadowc44.livejournal.com]

I really wish we'd been able to have at least one more episode, or a couple, with Sam at Stanford, and Jess still alive. We could have had some flashbacks or something. We have no idea what Jess's major was, what they had in common, how they met, or so many other things. I can see why they wanted to just jump right in and show the boys driving off together, intending to stick together, but Jess's death might have had more impact on the audience if we'd had more time to get to know her.

I agree, though, Dean seems to have always been Daddy's Big Boy, and Dean by default became Sam's mom as well as his brother. Poor boys!

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Yes, we know very little about Jess. Then the show does that a lot with Sam. We have had two alternative lives for Dean as well as him going into the past, so Deans POV is clearer than Sam's a lot of the time.

Dean does have a paternal role for Sam.

[shadowc44.livejournal.com]

I do wish we knew more from Sam's point of view. I thought in the beginning that Sam was supposed to be the audience viewpoint character, the one the audience would identify with. It seems that Dean is either the one a lot of people identify with, or want to be like. I know a lot of the brash, sarcastic, seemingly-overconfident, macho type guys appeal to a lot of women, I just don't understand why! I'd be much more comfortable around a guy like Sam. I may have more in common with Dean as far as taste in music, but that's about it!

I think getting to know Jess would have helped us understand Sam a lot better. But then, maybe it's been a deliberate choice to keep Sam a bit more mysterious.

Well, in many ways, Dean was brother, mother and father to Sam, whereas John was mostly either the absent father or the drill sergeant.

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

I think Dean was the cool one that peaked everyone's interest and EK has played to that, building his character up.

[shadowc44.livejournal.com]

Yep, I just happen to be in the minority who doesn't find Dean cool. I wish I did, because I really seem to be missing out on this character who makes some people so incredibly, swooningly happy, but the very qualities a lot of people like are the ones that drive me away.

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Yes, I find that with Dean as well, and Jensen just seems like another bland pretty boy to me, so lacks appeal. Sam I find more interesting.

[shadowc44.livejournal.com]

I agree, I find Sam fascinating, but not Dean. Maybe part of it is because we know so much about where Dean is coming from, there's not much mystery there. Also, my personality is a lot more like Sam's. For me, opposites don't attract, I'd rather be around someone I already "get" without having to get past a lot of walls and false impressions.

I'm hoping we'll get more insight into Sam next season, but I really don't know where they're going.

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Oh yes, so much is explained about Dean, and I think I would get Sam more if I met him as well.

I'm not holding out much hope of finding out more about Sam even in the final season to be honest. This season has still been a huge disappointment to me.

[shadowc44.livejournal.com]

I think a big part of my disappointment this season is having the boys so far apart, lying to each other, going behind each other's back, etc. A huge part of the appeal of the show is their closeness, how much they'll do for one another. Now they're constantly arguing, threatening one another, fighting, and that's not what I signed on for! I want to see at least a little of how much they still love each other before the next major disaster befalls them, which will probably happen in the first five minutes of the show.

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Yes, it was the strong relationship between Sam and Dean I liked, and the show evolving around that. This season has driven such a wedge that I hasn't been enjoyable for me to watch. I feel as if a rapid Dean fan/Sam hater has written it.

[shadowc44.livejournal.com]

Yes, like it was mostly written by new writers who weren't all that familiar with their dynamic before. "Oh, good dramatic writing must have *conflict* so let's have lots of that." I preferred it when most of the conflict was The Winchesters vs. the World, not vs. each other!

I get so annoyed when I see stories by one particular Dean/Castiel writer, who always says in the notes (or maybe the warnings?) that if she had her way Sam would have stayed dead. WTF? I know there are people who don't like the character, but that's taking it too far. It also annoys me that it seems like there's as much, if not more, Dean/Cas fic being written, as Dean/Sam (or, as I prefer, Sam/Dean). I think that's partly because the writers decided they really liked Castiel (or specifically Misha as Castiel) so they sort of gave him the role Sam should have had, spurring Dean on to be more than he thinks he could be. It's too bad that in order for Dean to gain faith in God, he had to lose faith in Sam. And the further away Sam got from God, the more faith he lost in Dean. Kinda.

I'm pretty sure Kripke has overall approval of the scripts, so I doubt much would have gotten past him that he didn't approve of, but are they playing to the enormous fan support of Dean (and Jensen) at the expense of Sam (and Jared)? Is it because the fans are so much more vocal in their love of Dean? Many questions to which we'll probably never get an answer!

ETA: I don't think I've mentioned it, but I want to read the Joss meta as well, that one sounds good, too!

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

I've been pretty unimpressed with the writing this year all in. They seem to have lost the vocus of the show, and the season has suffered because of it.

I don't read Dean/Castiel, so have nothing to imput about the writes of it. I think they are plandering to the Dean (Jensen) fanbase, and now the Castiel (Misha) fans as well, and Sam (Jared) is the one suffering. I don't like it at all!

I hope to do the Metas soon!

[jaded-jamie.livejournal.com]

I agree with you about Joss completely. I don't know about Sam...I mean I don't have an opinion either way.

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Ummmm! Might have to be careful with the Sam one. It is pretty close to my heart.

[jaded-jamie.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's why I said I have no opinion either way, cos I've never thought about Sam or Dean or the SPN lot at all in the meta way. Thusly, no opinion.

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Right, just sit back and enjoy I guess!

[jaded-jamie.livejournal.com]

I pretty much agree with every opinion you have about SPN anyway.

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

Thank You Jamie :-)

[xenodike.livejournal.com]

I hate when people are like that...

Both the metas sound really interesting, I would love tor ead them.

Hugs

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

I know, you end up just switching them off.

I hope the metas are interesting, and enjoyable!

*hugs*